Peter: What's going on, everyone? Peter Byram here, and I'm with Andrea DeLong of Andrea DeLong Photography, one of our members inside the Next Level photography community. Andrea, thanks for jumping on. Introduce yourself briefly and tell us how long you've been in the business.

Andrea: I'm Andrea DeLong. I live in Kansas City, and that's my market. I've been in the business a really long time. I think it's been a decade where it was 100% of my income, and before that I worked in advertising as an in-house photographer. I graduated from Brooks Institute of Photography in 2003, and right after school, I was a fashion photographer in Los Angeles before I moved back here. I left living in Hawaii to be a photographer, so it's definitely in my blood. But weddings have been my main focus for the last 10 years.

Peter: Tell me what life was like before we started working together. What challenges were you facing?

Andrea: If you back up two or three years, my problem wasn't booking. I was booking more than I could do, and I was overwhelmed. I didn't have work-life balance at all. I was shooting weddings every single weekend. I've shot somewhere around 370 to 400 weddings in my career, which is awesome, but it takes a toll. I felt lost. I'd put all my eggs in this basket, and I knew it wasn't going to hold up until retirement. Then bookings became harder and harder, and prices overall in Kansas City went down. There were a lot of new people in the scene. It's my bread and butter, but I'd begun to lose my passion for it, so it was hard to find the fire to go out and fight for it. It was a job I gave everything to. At the end of the day, I felt let down by it. I'd given everything to it, and it was a really sad moment.

Peter: And you were ready to walk away from the whole industry, right?

Andrea: Half excited to walk away, honestly. I was ready to get my weekends back. It was hard to maintain friendships on such a different schedule. I was giving people all I had, and it was taking everything with it, including me. I lost myself in it, and in clients who maybe weren't great and treated me badly. It felt like it was all for nothing.

Peter: So you were wondering whether to keep going and get reinvigorated, or hang it up?

Andrea: I didn't know what to do, Peter, when you came around. I knew bookings had already dropped. I had an idea where I wanted to go, but no idea how to get there. I was trying to do it organically, but I knew I couldn't do enough portraits to make up for weddings, and then with COVID, everything was rescheduling. I also knew I couldn't quit photography altogether and go get a job down the street at that moment. So I was willing to go into this with you, give it a go and come at it from a different angle. I wanted to readjust my attitude and get serious about what I want and who I am as an artist. I wanted authenticity and realness, and I think I have something to offer. You gave me hope at the very beginning that it was possible. That's why I signed up. It was a spark of hope, not a ton. I wasn't sure I totally believed you, but I was willing to give it 100% and trust you.

Peter: Why do you think you took the leap of faith?

Andrea: I didn't have anything else to lose. I didn't love it anymore, and I wanted to, because I knew it was there and I know it's my purpose. I just didn't know where to go with it or how to build it. So I took the leap of faith because I trusted you knew what you were talking about, and your conviction in being able to help me get there. I believed you enough to jump off the ship with you.

Peter: That's powerful. When we started working together, what was the big problem you were trying to solve?

Andrea: I was trying to follow your program step by step, so at first it was booking weddings during COVID and bringing in income while I was losing income. I was trying to save my business, so I'd actually have choices down the road. That's how it started. But organically, and by accident, other things happened from that.

Peter: Let's talk about that. You joined Next Level. Then what happened?

Andrea: I was trucking along, and I really got hung up on talking to people on Facebook. I know I'm not alone. I sat there sweating, because it was so hard for me not to write something like, "Hey, I'm not a creeper, I'm just stopping to say hi." I've had guys do that on my Facebook before, and I didn't like it. I felt uncomfortable. So I did three and moved on to the ad part. Then I ran into struggles there. I had a lot of fun building my landing page and thinking of my ad copy. But I had the hardest time getting it to go live with the pixel. I was fit to be tied, because it's so left-brained and my brain is 100% right-brained. It was killing my spirit. But I did get it, and I was so proud of myself when that thing connected. I shut the computer and poured a cocktail. It was a Christmas miracle.

Andrea: And then, by accident, I know you told me to focus on one thing at a time, but I thought, no way am I going to do that train wreck all over again when it's not fresh in my head. So I built the back end of a senior campaign while I was in there and had seen every single page of Facebook Ads Manager. I figured I could finish the creative later. And while I was doing that, the ad language I'd been using for weddings wasn't much different, and all of a sudden there was a spark. I realized that if I launched this for seniors, I needed to go back to week one and redo it for seniors, because I needed a new presentation. Going back to the qualifying script, it didn't fit how you'd talk to a senior, because parents need to be involved. And as I worked through that process, I thought, what on earth, I should have been doing this for every client, every time. I just woke up, and it made sense. People were excited, and I was excited. It was hard to get back to the business of ads, because I wanted to get out and shoot. Everything was awake. It started as me being frustrated with the wedding ad and not wanting to do the setup again, even though you told me to focus on one thing. I'm not the most focused. And it ended up being the best thing that ever happened. Afterward, I was able to go back and reword my wedding page, because it started to make sense.

Peter: What are you doing on your calls now?

Andrea: It's a process. It's not reinventing the wheel. I really believe we've been doing portraits wrong. We start with the clothes, then pick a location based on the clothes. I'm all about the concept. It doesn't have to be spot on. This isn't about copying Pinterest. It's the tonalities you gravitate to, certain buildings or structures. If you step back and look at 200 pictures someone's pulled, you'll notice they use a lot of curved lines, or straight lines, or a theme will emerge whether they like it or not. People gravitate to very similar things. When you can see that and hone it in, and you both really agree on the concept, then you prep them. Before they show up, I send them five videos over time on how to move in front of the camera. Then we come up with locations. I go scouting and take pictures, they take pictures and we put that together. The last thing we do is clothes, because now we're dressing for the location. Sometimes it can just be a white button-up and a swimsuit with some sand on your shoulder. A perfect portrait isn't perfect to me, because that doesn't exist. That's our Instagram self. I want your real relationship with your partner, or the real you as a senior, or the man who builds those cars. So it lets us build the shoot, get people excited and have them prepped. When they show up, they're on fire, and the shooting part becomes the smallest part, because everyone's on the same page. It's electric. People are willing to get into things you never could have talked them into, because we have a common goal and we've talked about it. It's the same way you do it in advertising. As an art director, you don't just sit down and make a banner for a big brand. You have a meeting about concepts, then copy, then you talk to the developer, and the very last step is making the creative. I'm just following that.

Peter: It sounds like this reignited the flame in you. Why?

Andrea: It brought back the co-creation. I think that's what I've always loved about photography. I modeled when I was a kid, and that's really how I became a photographer. It brought back making something really beautiful together. I say this to everyone now: you are a co-creator with me. I can only do 50% of my job, because you have to bring the other 50%. There's magic there, and realness. It goes back to the authenticity of people, which is what I've always loved. It's taking fashion photography and bringing it to everyone in a natural way. It lit me up. This is my purpose. There's so much I can do to help other people from this space, not from feeling worn down by the wedding industry. This is art again. I stopped feeling like an artist a long time ago, and now I feel like an artist again. I feel awake, and it makes me emotional, because it's so powerful. Everything trickles from that. It's easy to sell something from that space, because it's genuine and real.

Peter: You came on one of the Q&A calls and said you were getting all these senior leads and getting people on the phone, but having a hard time getting them to book. Then something shifted, and you started booking a lot of them. I think you said you generated about 400 senior session leads. What made the difference?

Andrea: Another member and I were bouncing ideas back and forth, and she said, "What if you give $200 to the senior every time they send a referral who books, and make it a referral program?" So I turned it into something that feels exclusive. I'll say, "Let me check if I have space left," send a quick text and say, "Okay, I've got one more. I'll need to know by the end of the day." I also have $100 of wiggle room. If I feel like I'm going to lose somebody I really want to work with, and I like their concept, after the consult, not on it, I'll text and say, "I would love to work with you. I'll take off another $100 if you book today." And I started booking. I don't always use the $100. That's my Hail Mary if I feel like they're going to go. I can usually see it on mom's face.

Peter: You've gotten to a place where you know how to close.

Andrea: It's progress. I wouldn't say I'm a master at closing, but I'm definitely getting better. It's easier when you believe in what you're selling. I believe I have a different product than anything happening in Kansas City, and in the self-discovery exercise to get there. There's no BS I'm selling. I'm selling my heart.

Peter: You have to sell yourself first. When you're sold, that energy pours through on the phone.

Andrea: Energy is contagious. When I'm that excited, other people get excited too. And I know I can make anyone look good.

Peter: How much revenue did you do with seniors?

Andrea: By the end of the campaign, it'll be somewhere close to $14,000, just for seniors. I'll start another campaign the first week of July. The question is how to keep that momentum. That was my very first one, so I'm learning. I'm hoping the next one still brings in the volume, but that I can do a better job qualifying leads. I got really sad when people came in and I could see they couldn't afford it. I'm not in the business of hurting anyone. Even if they want it and they're going to scrape for it, it's a luxury, and I don't want to go there. So I ask a lot of questions on my calls. And I like being able to do the giveaway now. My original plan was to give the bonus to the senior who referred someone. Now I'm really giving it to the person who needs it most.

Peter: So about $14K on your first go ever, which is really awesome. How much did you spend on ads?

Andrea: Between $300 and $400. It was a little pricey because I ran multiple ads with different creative and goals. I was really trying to figure it out. I can tell you one picture change changed everything on one ad. Another time, I changed the copy, and it bombed. So it's pretty finicky. What's amazing one day may not be the next. It's kind of all about the first four days and the launch.

Peter: It's crazy how one image lights it up, or one piece of copy kills it. That's why it's about testing, creating hypotheses, getting feedback and iterating. So you spent $300 or $400. That's a better return than the stock market or real estate.

Andrea: It's so much better than money. I don't have the TV on when I work. I can't research locations enough. I'm up at night wondering what certain locations look like at night. Money can't buy my passion being back. Everything I loved about this is back. I haven't even thought about the money, and I'm glad in a way.

Peter: Let's talk about weddings. You said you booked four weddings, for about $11K, and that the weddings you're shooting now are different. Why?

Andrea: I took the same kind of ad copy from the senior page, because I realized that as I described my work and how I want to shoot, that is who I am. That isn't going to change. That's my style of photography, and I need to own it. So I moved it into weddings, and it became a niche. That pushes some people out. Some people want me to photograph differently. But the people who did want it didn't just kind of want it. They were a perfect fit. I knew I'd lose some, but I don't necessarily want the ones who aren't a fit either. The couples who've come in have been absolute dreams. There's one coming up in a few weeks, and the amount of planning between us, going back and forth on locations, is amazing. We found a castle. And it's like the seniors. We're laughing, I ask how their meeting went, and I actually care. By the time you get to their wedding day, you're their friend, and I really get to create epic art for them. To me, that's what it always should have been. There's another couple I booked who take Sunday drives. I'm asking much more in-depth questions now and getting to who they are. We figured out a way to rig me into the Jeep, so it can be moving, with reflectors on each side. If you don't hear from me in a couple of weeks, it didn't work. It makes it so much more fun to use your imagination. Figuring out how to rig myself into a Jeep or get someone up on a rock, that's my skill set. I'm creative, and coming up with creative solutions is what I'm good at.

Peter: So you're connecting with dream clients, and you think it's because your ads speak right to them?

Andrea: I put it in no uncertain terms, and I meant to. Once I kicked off the seniors and came alive, I wanted to stay there, because I don't want clients who aren't a good fit anymore. That doesn't feed my soul, and then I'm not going to feed theirs in return.

Peter: How much did you make off the four weddings?

Andrea: My packages run from about $2,900 to $3,400, and they were all in that range, a couple at $2,900 and the others around $3,000. And when I booked those, it was instant. They were fast sales, because there was such a connection. There were also some that weren't a fit, because I'm not pretending anymore.

Peter: And you don't have to.

Andrea: I think the problem for years was that I kept thinking, what does everybody else want me to be? What does the wedding industry want me to be? Light and airy? I have the skills. I can do light and airy. But I was asking what my clients wanted and shooting for them, instead of being true to my own art and style. Anyone would get lost in that. Then I started asking, what is my style? That's a problem if you can't define it anymore.

Andrea: The best part is what happened with my friends. I was so excited about the senior thing that I was telling a friend about it at volleyball practice, and she said, "I want this shoot. No one takes pictures of us." So I asked, "What are your keywords?" We built a concept, and her shoot is going to be amazing. Another friend from volleyball, same thing. His concept is super cool, and we shoot Tuesday. Another one wants this crazy face makeup, and I found a makeup artist who'll do it. I was doing those because they're my friends, and then a friend said, "Why don't you sell this?" I thought, why don't I? That's when I really lit up. This is a whole new business. I don't have a portfolio for it yet, and I'm going to build it. It's so exciting to start this venture for people who can pay for something smaller-scale, focused on quality over quantity, with the production of a commercial shoot for everyday people. There's something there. I also have a friend I worked with in advertising for years. His daughter was an organic senior lead, and as I was explaining my process, he said, "I'm going to hire you. I want a shot of me building my cars." So there might be something here. This is a baby. It might still be in the belly. But it's coming. Now it's about shaping the idea from what I found by accident making that senior script, into something really powerful for people in different phases of their lives. Maybe not every portrait is beautiful, but every moment is beautiful. Maybe we move away from the inauthentic, everyone-wearing-white-and-smiling portrait, toward things that are truly beautiful because that's life. That's growth. So I'm open to any suggestions or ideas. My first ones will obviously be free, and then we talked about asking my Facebook page whether there's interest and figuring out price points. If I had those dream weddings with couples who let us be creative, and these portraits, and seniors in between, maybe even families, that would be amazing. I'm back. I'm awake, and I'm excited. It's crazy how off the rails I went without changing careers.

Peter: We talked about this yesterday. What is the senior thing, really? It's portraits for a moment in your life. You want to capture it and remember it. There are all kinds of moments people have. Just because they're not a high school senior doesn't mean they don't want those images. There are people in your network who will be interested in this. Start conversations with them, because people want pictures.

Andrea: There are beautiful moments, like the day your kids move out of the house, or you're single and living in the city, or you start a new job. These are huge moments, and people aren't getting married or having kids on the same timeline they used to. So there aren't portraits along the way. I'm not the only person in that situation. There's a need for it. Even for dating sites, no one really wants a professional headshot. But something that really shows you doing what you love has value.

Peter: There's never been a time when that's more relevant, because of social media. People want images for themselves and to share their passions with friends.

Andrea: If you're into kayaking, let's do kayaking, and make it cool but totally real. That requires research and thinking.

Peter: For people listening, you got all these leads and bookings, and got reinvigorated, through Facebook ads. But you said you were frustrated when you started building your campaigns. How did you get through it?

Andrea: You helped me. There were things I'd struggled with for hours, and you'd say, "Click this," and it would just work. Someone on one of the first calls told me to try Wix, which was really good advice. You both told me to put it away for the night, and I did. I woke up the next day, put the frustration aside and rebuilt everything on Wix, which was way more intuitive for me and gave me much better design control, which is very important to me. It was one step at a time. I knew the coding, tracking and money parts were never going to be my strength. I'm very right-brained. I just needed to get through it and understand it, so I could get back to the part I love. I just kept swimming, and when it all came together, it was a beautiful moment.

Peter: Do you feel like it'll be easier now?

Andrea: Yes. It's hard until you've done it twice, or really three times.

Peter: Everything's hard until it's not.

Andrea: Up until then, I was like, "Friending people? No problem." Then all of a sudden it's, "You want me to make a landing page in a week, with pixels and custom conversions?" And you'd say, "Don't spend too long on the creative," and I'd think, you don't know me at all. I had to let some of that go. Week four is definitely the hardest week. It took me two weeks.

Peter: But you got it built, and now you have assets you can use again and again.

Andrea: Once I built one landing page, it was easy to build the next. It's rinse and repeat. After our call yesterday, I'm going to build several more and test different funnels to see which performs better. I already own several domains for this, so I might as well have a billion landing pages.

Peter: The most important thing now, like we talked about yesterday, is that portraits are the passion, and you also love weddings when they're the right fit. The key is to validate the new offer organically. Get some people booking portraits organically, maybe starting with your current friends and then new people, and then build the funnel and send traffic to it.

Andrea: I agree. And without even knowing it, I've been friending people who fit that avatar, because it's been my passion. That came naturally, while finding engaged couples felt hard. Someone in my group compared it to the game of "warmer, colder." You know you're on the right path when it feels warmer. So when you said that yesterday, I realized I haven't felt creepy doing it at all. I'm moving toward what feels warmer, and I'm in the current of my own creativity. These people could be wedding clients too. It's not that different. I changed my mindset by being really clear about the avatar, and more importantly, about who I am again, and not being willing to conform my art. Then I thought, I can totally do this on my Facebook page. I can make a group. When I first started the program, I wasn't there yet. This progression happened in weeks five and six, and really took off in weeks seven through ten. So I'm excited to go back through it and see where it grows.

Peter: When you're passionate, the organic stuff doesn't feel like work. You're just saying, "I have this really cool thing, and I think you'd love it."

Andrea: None of the senior stuff has felt like work. My last shoot was supposed to be two hours, and suddenly it was night. I have no concept of time. At some point I'll probably need to rein that in.

Peter: What's coming through on this call is your perseverance. You started the program burned out and disillusioned. The organic stuff was a struggle at first. The ad setup was new and hurt your head. But you kept pressing forward, and now you're seeing the results, and going back to organic makes so much more sense. Why did you persevere?

Andrea: I was willing to give it one last shot. This career I loved hadn't served me, but I'd given everything to it, so I was willing to really try one more time. That was it. If it didn't work, it didn't work, and I had peace with that, because I didn't want to take another picture where someone's hair doesn't move in the wind. COVID forced that change faster, and it gave me the time and space to give your program what it needed. I was working 90-hour weeks for all those years. I never would have had the time to dig into it the way I did. So I thought, if it doesn't save my business, it was probably going to end anyway. I had one more chance to listen to someone I trusted, so I was going to follow you and try with all my might. And all these beautiful things happened. It really changed my life, and I don't even care about the money part. This is what I love, and I'd forgotten that I loved it. I'd forgotten I was good at it. I'm a lighting wizard, and no one ever challenged me enough to try. It's been life-changing. And so many other wonderful things have come from it, like how to use this as a gift for someone who can't afford it, or in a way that serves a charity.

Peter: That's beautiful. If somebody's on the fence about joining Next Level, what would you say to encourage them?

Andrea: It is work. You have to be prepared. Peter isn't going to do it for you. He's not going to give you the fish, but he's going to teach you to fish. If you're really ready to transform your business into exactly what you want, and you have a clear vision of where you want it to go, follow it and listen, and he'll help you get there. You don't even have to start with that vision. It can come to you over the course, like it did for me. A lot of what I'm doing is a little different from the course, and Peter helped shape it to work for my idea. You'll get out of it what you put into it. That's the bottom line. If you're not going to put much into it, you probably won't get much out of it. So decide where you want your business to go and whether you're willing to do the work and really listen. And it's not all easy, "good for you" business advice. There's some tough love along the way, but that's important as we grow out of bad patterns.

Peter: What's your number one piece of advice for other members in Next Level?

Andrea: Just keep swimming. Keep working at it, trying different things and pushing. A few of my ads just flopped, and I can see how frustrating that would be if those were your first ones. But the biggest piece of advice I can give is that it's so easy to sell anything when you find your passion again. A consult feels exponentially different and exciting. If you're not feeling that, keep digging until you find it. Weddings are a burnout industry, and I know that. But you love your art. So find that, and make sure you're doing personal projects. I'd lost that along the way.

Peter: That's really good advice. And I'd add: come on the calls if you need help. If people want to connect with you for a portrait, what's the best way?

Andrea: My website is the best way to look at my work: delongstudios.com. I'd love to talk to you. Be prepared to do some work, and we'll make the most authentic portrait out there.

Peter: Andrea, thanks so much for jumping on today. I'm so excited to see this next chapter as you build that dream business.

Andrea: Thank you, Peter. You've really changed my life, honestly.