Peter: We're here today with Dani Fobar of Dani Fobar Photography. Dani has an amazing story. Introduce yourself and tell us about your business.

Dani: My name's Dani Fobar, and I'm at West Point, New York. I work in the Hudson Valley as a wedding and portrait photographer. I do portraits because there are a lot of cadets and families here, and there's a great need for it. I do weddings because I love the love story. I'm married to an American soldier stationed here. I've been doing weddings officially for three years. One of those years was during the pandemic, when everything shut down and two weddings rescheduled on me, which was heart-wrenching. I've been a legitimate business, with insurance and taxes and all of that, for about three years.

Peter: So you started in 2018?

Dani: Yes, that's when we were relocated here for my husband's job. I'd been playing around with my camera, trying to hone my skills. Honestly, it wasn't that great. Then I watched a lot of YouTube, something clicked, my style completely changed, and I could barely book fast enough. But I wasn't booking that much, honestly. It kept me busy, but it wasn't worth the money I was charging.

Peter: Do you remember how you first came across me?

Dani: You sent me a friend request on Facebook and then a message, and I told my husband, "This creepy dude is sending me a message. He seems really salesy, maybe a scam." He said, "Yeah, it's a scam, stop talking to him." As military spouses, we go through a lot of cyber training, and we lock down our Facebook profiles tight. So I was super skeptical. I was still skeptical all the way through our first consultation. I thought, "He's going to scam me out of $6,000."

Dani: Then came that first bride I was telling you about. I got her booking during the pandemic. I was emotionally down because I wasn't getting any bookings. Everything shut down. I didn't touch my camera for two months. The cadets were sent home for safety, and we couldn't do anything. This bride reached out and said, "In October, I'm having a micro wedding before my big wedding. Can you shoot it?" She rattled off everything she wanted, and I said, "Yeah, I'll do it for 500 bucks." Four hours of work, an hour's drive each way, six hours total.

When I shot her wedding, I felt undervalued. I felt like I was just a person with a camera. It should have just been an iPhone at that point. I never wanted to feel like that again, like I was just a service to a bride. I maintained my professionalism and gave it 100%, and her wedding is still one of my favorites. You can't get anything better than rich fall colors in the Hudson Valley. But I vowed I would never work that cheaply again.

Peter: When did you book her?

Dani: Around April. Their big wedding had already been pushed back, but they still wanted to be married, so I fell in love with them because they were so eager to get married. But I cut myself short.

Peter: Early on, one of the things we talked about was that you felt you weren't charging enough. Why?

Dani: I wanted to charge more, but I was scared no one would book me. In wedding Facebook groups, a couple would post, "Looking for a photographer in this area, here's my budget," and 100 photographers would jump on it, like piranhas. I'd say, "I'm free that day," and I'd get a heart but nothing else. It was frustrating. I was also on the wedding listing sites, and that's where I got gigs to build experience. But nothing felt wholesome. I wasn't valued or treated like a human being instead of just a service.

Peter: Why was that?

Dani: I honestly think I wasn't charging enough. Couples enjoyed the photography, but they didn't value it. They had a checklist, and I was a box they checked. I was just someone with a fancy camera who knew how to use it. They didn't know me or that I have two crazy little boys I love so much. I know the wedding day isn't about me, and I never make it about myself. But I still want to be valued. I'm witnessing the most important, intimate moments of these couples' lives, and I was being treated as just a service. The other problem was confidence in charging what I was worth. When I first got to West Point, I was scared to charge anything over $150. Now my family sessions are well over $400, and my cadet sessions are higher than that. I've increased my prices tenfold, because not only are people valuing me, but I finally value myself.

Peter: Our first call was in April 2020, when the pandemic was still very fresh.

Dani: Yes. After that call I thought, "Okay, he is what he is." Then I messaged you again about a month later. I toyed with it for close to eight months. I asked for your advice, and I was shocked that you just gave me legit advice, the kind someone would charge $500 or $1,000 for, out of the goodness of your heart. That's when my guard started to come down.

Peter: You also mentioned photographers in your area you were friendly with who were charging a lot more and making a lot of money.

Dani: Yes. There's another photographer here, and we're close friends. We cover for each other in case something happens. She told me she easily makes $150,000 and outsources everything. I asked how, and she said she was booked before she even moved here. I couldn't understand how a military spouse books somewhere before she even knows where she's going, and still clears $150,000. I didn't even know a photographer could make six figures, let alone well into six figures.

In December 2019, my friend Lisa and I sat down and made a list of goals for 2020. I said I'd try to make $75,000, and she asked, "Why not try for $100,000?" I said there was no way. In November she called and asked how my list was going, and I'd already passed $75,000. I'm going to miss $100,000 by just a little bit.

Dani: Yes, I saw an interview like this and messaged her. I asked, "Is this guy for real, or is he going to scam me?" She said, "No, he's legit." I asked if she was running Facebook ads, and she said she hadn't run one yet, and she's easily cleared six figures. I asked what you were telling her to do, and she said, "He literally tells you exactly what to say on consultations." I'd never done a consultation. I was scared of them. She said, "Honey, I'm probably the biggest introvert out there, and he pushed me until I was comfortable doing them, and now I'm doing them left and right and making more money." She'd been able to quit her other jobs and stay financially stable. So I thought, "Okay, this guy is not a scam. He's pretty legit." I signed up the next week.

Dani: My other driving force is my kids. I grew up in Montana, and we live very far from my home state and my husband's in Michigan. I haven't spent a holiday at home in probably seven years, so I get homesick. My dream is to work weddings during Montana summers, get a place out there, and show my boys the way I grew up so they have the same values and similar experiences. My drive is to have enough money to buy a cabin and some land, a forever home for when my husband leaves the military.

Peter: So you joined the program. Then what happened?

Dani: I joined in September, and it took me several weeks to get through the training because I have two young boys. My husband works about 12 hours a day. So I'm a stay-at-home mom, a full-time businesswoman, and a support for my husband. Because of the pandemic, cadets weren't allowed off post, so this fall I was also making weekly dinners for 10 cadets, with fresh vegetables, because they wanted a connection to the outside. I'm a sponsor mom to 20 cadets.

Peter: How did you manage all of that and implement the training?

Dani: Time management. There's a quote I saw on Instagram: "Go silent for four months. Learn a skill. Then come out, grind and take names." That's what I did. I didn't watch Netflix. I did all my sessions, and this last fall almost killed me because it was so busy. I hired a babysitter to come in the afternoons and play with my kids, so I could edit, run my business and do my education. I was making enough to cover the babysitting and make sure my kids were taken care of, and they still got Mom in the evenings. We'd do dinner and the bedtime routine, and after they went to bed at 7:30, I'd work for another three hours. Now I'm moving toward outsourcing my work so I can buy back time with my kids and my husband.

Peter: You're becoming that photographer you were asking about.

Dani: Yes, we compare notes now.

Peter: You can't do this without drive, right?

Dani: If there's no motivation, and you just see that a photographer made $100,000 and you want $100,000, you're not going to get it. There were times I wanted to quit, but my love for photography and my drive to do well kept me going. I didn't go to school for business, so this is all new. Now I can afford to hire an accountant, so I make sure the business side is straight. And I was shooting my busy season at the same time, sometimes three sessions a day.

Peter: Let's talk about results. What wins have you had?

Dani: I have 15 weddings booked, and three of those are next year. I didn't book any of them under $2,000. I had one pandemic reschedule I couldn't accommodate, so I found another photographer for her and made sure she was taken care of.

Peter: So you were selling weddings for $2,000 or less, and now you're selling them for $4,000 to $5,000. How did that happen?

Dani: Going through your program, the first thing is mindset. You have to get your head in the game and know you're worth it. I never publish my prices, but I worked out what it would cost me to shoot a wedding and what I wanted to make on the back end. Then you need the confidence to put the number out there and wait. It's scary the first time. You slide that number across the table, and half the time the couple says, "Oh yeah, that's what we expected." And I think, "Shoot, I could have charged $500 more."

My mindset is different in how I talk to people, too. I actually listen. Couples have their own story they want to tell, and they want to do the talking first. I want to get to know their story, because that's the whole point of photography: telling your client's story through an image. I'm not the best with words, so photography is my language.

Peter: We're in January 2021, and you joined a few months ago. How much have you booked this month?

Dani: Let me check. The value of my bookings this month is $26,000, mostly weddings, plus some portraits. I didn't realize how big that was until we started talking about it.

Peter: That's a lot for one month. And five weddings at $4,500?

Dani: Yes, and I'm hoping to hear back from a couple about a destination wedding in my home state, Montana. These days, if I set up a consultation, I'm going to book them, because I've already gotten a good vibe from messaging, and they've already seen my work. I just have to close the deal.

Peter: A lot of people struggle with the second half of the consultation, where you talk about what you offer and the price. How do you handle it?

Dani: First, a lot of couples ask about pricing right away. I tell them, "I don't want to get into that right now. We will, I promise. But first I want to make sure we click, because I'm a stranger at this point, and I'm photographing one of the most intimate moments of your life." They usually say, "I like that," and ask when we can meet face-to-face. In the chat beforehand, I ask how they met and try to build a friendship. On the consultation, I try to have both of them there, and I address both of them.

Then I say, "Let's get into the meat of this. Let's talk about the packages and what I offer." The number is literally the last thing I say. I go through everything line by line: you get all the edited images, you won't get my misfires or missed focus, and so on. Then I tell them the number, and they're usually quiet. I get nervous and panicked, and I want to say something, but I just sit there and shut up. Then they either say, "Wow, that's more than we thought," or, "That's about what we expected."

If it's more than they expected, I ask, "What were your expectations?" and I stay quiet again. Sometimes while they're talking, I'll say, "Oh, I forgot to mention the engagement session is complimentary." Or, "We can easily add a wedding album for $500," or "a second shooter for $200." I add things to add value. My number is the number. I don't take away from it. I add to it.

Peter: That takes courage. You don't fold in that moment. You stay with them instead of getting nervous, saying "email me," and getting ghosted.

Dani: You have to ignore the panic and stay calm. Learn breathing exercises if you have to. The calmer you are on a consultation, the better. Once I told you, "This couple is on the fence. They're not going to book me." You said, "Just stay calm." Twenty-four hours later, I had a signed contract. They'd just been busy at work. I take it personally because I want to be valued, but it's business. Couples are looking at the dollar amount, but they also want good work.

Peter: The next level of sales is being completely present with the person. They know you're sincere, they trust you, and that's how they buy. And people want someone to lead them.

Dani: You can get them over the line after the consultation, too. When a couple says, "Send us the contract, we'll look it over and think about it," I let it simmer. Two days later, I find something to start a conversation, like a detail from our talk or their venue. One couple had a barnwood venue, so I told them, "I have these barnwood frames in my house. I could easily give you one. It would complement your venue, and your wedding portraits would look amazing in it." I've booked two weddings that way. They were probably talking to another photographer, and I reminded them I'd go above and beyond. I'm the best choice because I give a damn.

Peter: A lot of people follow up with "Just checking in," which feels like pressure. When you say, "I thought of you and thought this would be great for you," with no strings attached, they want to talk to you again.

Dani: People just want to be treated like a person, not a source of money or a swipe of a credit card. They have a story they want to tell, just like we all do.

Peter: You also paid off your student loans.

Dani: Yes. I graduated in 2009 with about $25,000 in debt, right at the start of the recession, and couldn't find a job. I got married, and we didn't make much of a dent in it. This last fall, with this work, I paid off the rest, almost a third of it. I have no pre-marriage debt now.