Peter: We're joined by Franz Knight of FM Visuals. Franz is an incredible wedding photographer and videographer based in Michigan who now shoots weddings all over the U.S. Franz, introduce yourself.

Franz: I've been in photography and videography for over 10 years. I was out of it for a couple of years, then picked it back up over the last few years to build it into a legitimate business, not just a side thing. I'm also a software engineer. That's what I studied at the University of Michigan. It's funny that I call engineering my side job now. All my paths are converging, and I almost have to decide whether to stay where I am or really push this forward.

Peter: The only thing keeping the business from exploding even more at this point is the time you dedicate to it.

Franz: Most people don't think it's possible when they're doing photography on the side of a job. Now it's, "How much of this do I want to take on?" It's a cool spot to be in.

Peter: What was going on last year that made you reach out?

Franz: Most of my inquiries were referrals or Facebook groups. You see a perfect post, go to comment, and there are already 100 comments. I commented so much that Facebook would block me from commenting a couple of times a month. I got enough work to stay busy, but it was never consistent, and I was never really moving forward. My revenue fluctuated, but it was definitely under $40,000 a year, between photo and video, and almost all of it was in Michigan. Then I learned how sales funnels work, and it clicked. I knew what I needed to do to give myself a shot.

Peter: So many people rely on referrals, which is great until there aren't any. Your friends all get married, or there's a slower year, and suddenly you're stuck.

Franz: Before, I'd throw everything out there and grab whatever came back. Now I have a process: generating the lead, nurturing the client, and the sales part, which was a brand-new concept for me. I also updated my portfolio, which I used to update only every two or three years because I was comfortable, and I started posting more often. Now I know what to do when a lead comes in: how to reach out, how to set up a call, and how to take them through the process. Before, I just tried to book them from the very first message. Now it's a more structured, better customer experience, and I have more leads.

Franz: Around March of this year, I floated the idea that I still wanted to travel and didn't want my weekends to keep me from it. So why not book weddings in places I'd want to travel to every year? That's when we started targeting outside Michigan.

Peter: We started targeting Colorado, which isn't your market, focused mainly on wedding videography.

Franz: We were focused on photography, but video was the main selling point. Ceremony video is something most couples don't think of. They book photography and then wonder, "Do we need a videographer?" That's one of the most common questions in the groups, so it was an effective hook.

First, I needed work I could show from Colorado. I booked one or two shoots there, and since I love hiking, it was easy to find couples who wanted to hike and get photos. But honestly, a lot of it didn't need to be from Colorado. Most of my page is still Michigan work. And the ad creative that brought in the most Colorado leads was from a wedding venue in Michigan.

Peter: For people listening, you didn't have Colorado wedding content. You had hiking photos on your personal Instagram and one engagement session.

Franz: That was it.

Peter: Every person I've seen break into a destination market does it this way. At some point, you just have to make the leap, show you can add value, and build the relationship. Then you become the obvious choice. If you're thinking, "But I don't have a portfolio there," neither did Franz.

Franz: It usually comes up when couples look at my portfolio and see Michigan venues tagged. Some couples booked without even asking, just "Do you have a travel fee?" When they ask, I say, "I live in Michigan, but I travel all over the country to shoot," show them a wedding I just shot out of the country and one from Colorado, and then bring the focus back to them by asking questions and learning about their day.

When people are talking about their wedding plans, they get excited, and whoever they're excited talking to, the fear goes away. I used to think couples would be afraid to book me because I'm not local. But these days, it's rare to meet a photographer in person before your engagement shoot, or even before booking. So it doesn't matter whether I'm in Michigan or Colorado. Once they know I'm a pro who understands what they're going through, because I've helped hundreds of couples through it, they see me as the expert. They're not worried about where I'm from. They're thinking, "You're asking questions I didn't even know to ask my venue. What do I need to do next?" It's much easier when I'm not treating location as an objection to handle, and I just make sure they know I understand and can help.

Peter: Do you charge a travel fee when you go out of state?

Franz: For a destination wedding that's very far away, like out of the country, I quote my rate for the services plus reimbursement for flights and hotel. For Colorado, flights from Detroit are pretty steady and cheap if I book in advance, so I build travel into my quote. I give them one price instead of sending a separate invoice after I book flights, hotels, and a rental car. They don't go through line items wondering how much cheaper it'd be without something. It's just not in their mind.

Peter: Extra line items can be just enough friction to deter someone who's on the one-yard line.

Franz: Before we started, I was under $40K a year. Since we started this year, I've averaged about $10,000 a month, and if I don't do much more, I'll have a six-figure year. That's crazy. I used to think it'd be nice if photography could make as much as my engineering job, and now it pretty much does. It's letting me invest more in the business, not just in nicer gear but in a better customer experience from start to finish.

Peter: And that's $10K a month in cash collected.

Peter: When we reconnected at the start of this year, I saw the gap between what you were selling and what you were collecting, and I said we had to fix it. Right after that, you had a $12K cash month. Sometimes people say someone made $10K a month, but they only collected $1,500 or $2,000 of it. You're selling weddings in another state and collecting $10K cash a month. What's helped?

Franz: Perceived value, and getting out of my own head. Because I was also making money from engineering, I was comfortable with a $500 deposit. I thought couples wouldn't want to pay more up front and that a small deposit would help me close more. I didn't realize other people may save more than I do and are ready to pay. I had to see it to believe it. For one wedding, I quoted a little higher and offered a discount if they prepaid in cash. I said, "Here are the payment options. If you want to prepay, you'll save some money that can go toward whatever else you need for your wedding." They said yes and paid about $4K up front. I was hooked. After that, couple after couple paid $3K, $4K, or $4,700 up front.

Peter: For people listening: if you charge $4,500 or $5,000, say, "We can do 50% down to hold your date and the balance 30 days out, or if you want to prepay, we'll take another $500 off." It's shocking how many people will say yes. But you have to build the value first. It's not just about the script.

Peter: Most people are used to selling to referrals, which isn't really sales. It's taking orders. Selling to strangers on the internet is a skill most people underestimate. What would you tell a photographer or videographer who hasn't figured it out yet?

Franz: First, get out of your own way, and don't make the decision for the customer. I talked myself out of so many deals, wondering, "Will they even want to book me? They don't know me." You have to know your own value first, because if you're not sold on yourself, no one else will be. And if someone says no, that's fine, because now you have time to serve someone else. You're almost hunting for no's, and it frees you from worrying about rejection.

Second, the portfolio matters, but not as much as I thought. That was a tough pill to swallow, because so many photographers spend their whole career trying to perfect their website. Most of my clients don't even visit my website until after we've talked and they've booked a Zoom call. If you can't build a relationship and communicate well, it'll be tough whether your content is great or terrible.

Third, understanding the customer matters more than having the best product. One of your training videos says customers don't buy from whoever has the best product. They buy from whoever they feel understands them best. That changed how I talk to couples. It's less "Here's what I offer" and more "Tell me about you, and let's see if I can help." I'm solving a problem and filling a need in their life, not just selling them something.

Peter: Focus on the process, because you can't control outcomes. If you get too tense, it hurts your performance. If you just focus on serving people, you'll close one out of three. Businesses exist to solve problems, and the problem is different for every couple.

Franz: For some couples, it's having the best content to post online. For others, it's showing family members who can't be there, or passing something down to their kids and grandkids. You have to take the time to get to know them first so you know where to plug in.

Peter: What's been the most transformative thing we've done together?

Franz: Two things. First, the mindset shift of thinking from a sales perspective, not like a traditional photographer or videographer, which most creatives aren't used to. Second, having systems in place: a consistent way to generate leads and take couples through the process, instead of randomly emailing or texting. That's helping me scale, because I can offload work that doesn't require me specifically.

Peter: Say someone is where you were, doing about $40K a year from word of mouth and the occasional social media booking. They want a predictable system and maybe destination work, and they're on the fence about joining us. What would you say?

Franz: If I could build a six-figure business with my slow ramp-up and part-time effort, someone who puts in even 50% effort will do way more than me. That's not me putting myself down. It's knowing how much more I could do if I gave it 100%. It's not as hard as people think. I thought it was harder until I actually did it. Now I wonder how far I could go if I'd started earlier or gone all in, and that's exciting.

Peter: Often, the difference between $50K or $60K a year and $100K is just one more client a month. You have to learn some skills, but once you know how to turn strangers on the internet into clients, no one can take that from you.