Peter: We're back with another client of ours, James Turner. James is an elopement and wedding videographer, now based in Colorado. James, introduce yourself and tell us how long you've been in the game.

James: It's kind of a long story, so I'll shorten it. I've been doing video for weddings only for the past six or seven years, and recently I wanted to move from Michigan to Colorado. Now my girlfriend has joined the team to do photo, and we offer photo and video packages. My dream has always been elopements, or adventure elopements. After 150-plus weddings, they get a little redundant for me. But when you're moving to another state, you don't have many options, especially when you do it on a whim. So the real issue was getting bookings in another state. And we were also trying to sell photo now, which is a completely different part of the business. How do we combine the two? That's the short story. Now we're in Colorado, and we're thriving. We've got the mountains, and we're excited to explore the state more.

Peter: I talk to a lot of people who want to relocate or move their business, and what stops them is thinking they won't have any business when they move. You pulled it off.

James: I'd been trying for the past five years to slowly get Colorado bookings. I got about two. My most recent one was last February, and that was it. For some reason, it was so much harder to book them without going all in on Colorado. At one point, my website was half Michigan, half Colorado, and it just didn't work out. I had to commit to Colorado, and the only way to do that was to set a move date. I'm very impulsive, so we did it within a couple of months. We found the perfect apartment, and it was available in February, so we gave ourselves about three months to move, in between two trips to Europe.

Peter: I love just making it happen. Burn the boats.

James: It had been five years since I first visited in 2018, and I was done telling myself I'd move here one day. So we booked a trip out here to look at apartments, found some and did it.

Peter: Do you remember how we first got connected?

James: I think you messaged me first, and then I joined the Facebook group, and then I got a few messages from you and someone on your team. I was hesitant at first, I'll tell you that much. You see a random person messaging you, and you see success stories like "this person made $60K in 30 days" or "this person made $10K in a week," and I thought, "That's BS. He's just cherry-picking his most successful clients." It took me four or five months to finally book, which I'm so mad about, because I wish I'd done it earlier. Once I joined, I learned it's not cherry-picking. You post success stories about everybody, because just about everybody in the group is successful as long as they follow what you're teaching. Obviously, if they don't put in the time and effort, it doesn't work.

Peter: I get it, especially if you've been trying things for a while. It can seem too good to be true.

Peter: What problem were you trying to solve when we first connected?

James: I've taught myself a lot about marketing. I've done a deep dive into how to run ads and all of it. I'd tried Facebook ads, Google ads and a bunch of other ways to get people to come. My biggest issue was not enough inquiries, or the inquiries weren't quality leads, or they just didn't go anywhere. I knew the basics. I just didn't know how to implement it well or how to get someone from a lead to a booking. I thought I did, but after learning everything here, there's such an easy way to do it that most people don't realize, and that's just being yourself. I've spent so much money on my own marketing efforts that I'd have been better off hiring 15 different companies up front. At one point, I spent about $5,000 or $6,000 on Google ads by accident. Google kept recommending budget increases of 10 or 15%, and at some point my daily budget was $418, and I didn't realize it. I let it run for a week or two and spent four or five grand in two weeks, with maybe a couple of leads and no bookings. That hurt, and there was nothing I could do about it. I spent money on Facebook ads too, but not nearly as much.

James: Some things you can't learn online, at least not without buying a course. I tried a different course too.

Peter: There's a lot of good free content online, but the details matter. It's one thing to run some ads and get a couple of leads. It's another to build a repeatable process for getting clients week after week, and to have the full end-to-end process: you got the lead, now how do you move them through your sales process until they pay you?

James: A lot of free resources online are just so vague. They tell you to run this type of ad, then this type of ad, and eventually run them through your sales funnel, instead of actually teaching you how to do that or how to create an effective ad. I bought a course called StoryBrand, from Business Made Simple. It's a great course that teaches the basics of business and marketing. But it's vague about marketing, because it's not for photographers. In our niche, you really need someone to walk you through each step and how to get leads effectively. That's where I was struggling: not knowing how to implement everything.

Peter: Those guys know their stuff, but it's broad. What works for a giant corporation or a big HVAC company isn't necessarily what works for a six-figure creative who wants to book more clients next month.

James: I'd say about 80% of their information was geared toward physical product businesses, not service businesses like photo and video. I also bought a different course, which I won't name, that was supposed to teach photography sales and marketing. It basically pulled information from StoryBrand, so I learned the same thing twice. Coming here and learning the funnel has been so beneficial.

Peter: What was different about what we do versus what you'd done before?

James: The way I explain it to people is that it's not just a marketing firm you hire to run your ads. You do run our ads, make sure they're effective and figure out what works, and that saves me so much time, because I'm bad at copywriting. Writing effective ad copy is like running a marathon for me. I don't run. On top of that, you teach us step by step how to do each part of the process, like how to turn a lead into a booking. It's not vague. You walk us through it, and in the weekly meetings, you can walk anyone through it. No one else I've seen teaches that. Most people tell you to have a good brand, a good website, good SEO, a specialized niche, and I already knew that. That's YouTube 101. And you help with organic too, Instagram and Facebook, not just paid ads. Finding my ideal clients was something I struggled with, and it's still in progress, but I booked a wedding in Greece for next year, I have a few couples interested in Europe, and I have a bunch of destination and adventure elopements lined up. I don't think I would have figured out how to reach those clients on my own.

Peter: We're not interested in bad-mouthing anyone in the industry. But what I'm hearing is that we get down to brass tacks with sales and marketing, what actually moves the money needle. You can talk about brands and websites all day, but if you don't have leads and you're not moving them through a sales process, you won't make money.

James: A lot of us in the industry don't know enough about marketing. Take cold leads versus hot leads. Most people gear their marketing toward warm or hot leads. They wait for people to find their website through SEO or a Google ad. Those are easier to book. But once you learn to take a cold lead to a booking, you'll crush it with warm leads, because they're already ready to book. That's how I used to market: wait for inquiries, or post in Facebook groups. And it worked. Doing video alone, I made six figures, which was awesome. But my goal for 2023 is $250,000 or more in sales.

Peter: You'll do it.

James: Even $100K was an accomplishment, and it felt good. I can go on trips. I went to Europe in September, again for two weeks in December, and I'm going back in May for a wedding.

Peter: It's been about four months since we started working together. What have your results been so far?

James: I joined in mid-November, and then I went on a two-week trip the first two weeks of December. So I didn't get much done until after the trip. I got the basics done and set you up with Facebook ads, but a week and a half isn't enough time. I watched a lot of the training videos, but that only gets you so far if you can't implement it. I tried to work on the trip, but with the time difference and being on vacation, I gave up. Then the holidays came, with family stuff, so in November and December I maybe worked on the program for a week or a week and a half. In January, I went full force. It's booking season, and everyone's getting engaged, but that means they're just starting their planning and may not be ready to book. A lot of those couples are starting to book now, in March, April and May. Then I moved to Colorado in the first week and a half of February, and I was out of it for almost a month, packing, moving and unpacking. So realistically, I've worked the program for 60 days, maybe 90 if I'm lucky. That's on me. But I needed the bookings, and if I can do $50,000 in sales in 60 to 90 days, what can I do in the next four months? If I stay on this pace, I'll be well over $250,000 by the end of the year.

Peter: The $50K you booked was in Colorado, a state you weren't living in yet. We were running ads for you in Colorado while you lived in Michigan, for elopements and weddings. And this is videography, which is harder to sell than photography. How were you booking these couples when you didn't live there?

James: It was hard, but also easy in a way. I committed to the move, and with that, I committed to moving my brand to Colorado. I took everything about Michigan off my website and put Colorado everywhere, including my Instagram. I even changed where I live on Facebook to Colorado. And I'd visited at least 20 times, mostly in the past year, so I knew Colorado. When I chatted with couples, I knew the answers. I knew locations, what they should do, where they should go. If you're moving to a state you know nothing about, learn a little about it first, because couples want that knowledge. In my opinion, the biggest helping point when you're trying to book someone is helping them. They appreciate the effort. I'm a helper. But if you don't know the area, you'll be a fish out of water, because they'll ask questions you can't answer. So it's the knowledge, the experience and committing to the new state. If you're planning to move in a year or two or three, I did it in about two months. If I can do it in two months, you can do it in six, 12 or 18 months. Visit a few times and get to know the area. Look things up on Google, and check out other photographers' blogs to see good places to get married or elope.

Peter: A year ago, this was a dream, and now it's your reality. What I'm hearing is that you saturated your own mind with the area, so it became real.

James: Even now, though I just moved, I talk with couples as if I've lived here forever. That gives me confidence. When it comes up that I moved from Michigan, I just show them I know the area.

Peter: Most people in our industry market to their warm network: past clients, friends, their mom's coworker's daughter. It's different to go out onto the cold internet and bring in people who've never heard of you, who have lots of options and are figuring out budgets. And you're booking those people at a high price, like $6K. How do you do it?

James: It's a mix of things, but mainly being myself. We text people, which is no secret, and it's a lot more effective than email. I text them as if I'm texting a friend, and I offer help. Incentives are key too. The ads have incentives, and you use those to get couples on calls and video chats to book them. But really, it's showing them I'm not a salesman. I'm not at a car dealership trying to sell a new Subaru. I'm selling them something they honestly need for their wedding. You may not need a new car when you go to a dealership, but when you're having a wedding, you need photo, and I'd say you need video, though some people disagree because of the money. You become their friend, and you're there to help. I always tell couples, "Even if you don't book me, I'm happy to help you. Send me a text, and I'll give you recommendations." Usually they don't, because they have their own photographer by then. But it's about being there for them and being friendly.

I used to be very salesy in my emails: "I'm stoked you chose us and love our work. Here's our pricing guide." That's not the best approach. You don't want to send a pricing guide with 14 packages. It's overwhelming. Now I've learned to do the two-call close, with one of them a video call, and to make that video call a booking rather than a sales pitch. I don't even talk about them booking me on the call. It's more like, "How can I help you? What questions do you have about your wedding? What styles did you like that I showed you?" At the end, we talk prices, but that's the easy part at that point, because they're already sold. One bride the other day was tearing up on our call because she was so excited about her wedding.

Peter: It sounds like common sense, but common sense isn't common practice. Most people would say they're friendly, but when they get an inquiry, they send a pricing guide, and there's no human connection. That's like walking up to a stranger in a restaurant and proposing.

James: We're selling a service, not a product. Yesterday I bought Liquid IV packets from a Facebook ad, because I travel a lot and they help me stay hydrated on planes. They were convenient and cheap. That's an easy sell, because an ad can show you a product's benefits, and you can Google it and compare. You can't really do that with a service like photography. A lot of people don't list their prices, and you don't know them. And this is an important day. I can go without Liquid IV on a travel day. You can't go without your photographer. If they don't show up, what do you do?

Peter: And it's a high price point. Liquid IV was maybe 20 bucks. When someone invests $6K, they want to talk to a person and know they can trust you to show up and do what you said.

James: Look at us. I think we had about five calls before I booked, including one with someone else on your team. And I'm still mad I didn't start earlier, because I had those breaks and wish I'd used the full time. But I'm staying on.

Peter: You tried a lot of other things. You spent money on Google ads, websites and courses, and you wondered if you'd do it again. But you took the leap.

James: That's why I was so skeptical. I'd spent so much on advertising already. I thought, "This random guy messaging me on Facebook says I can make $50K in 90 days. That's BS." I was convinced the best way to make money was to have a good brand. I've learned it's the opposite. You want a good brand, but focus on marketing first. I spent about $13,000 on two websites and brands, one for weddings and one for elopements, about $6,800 and $7,800. I thought I'd have great SEO and everyone would love my website. But how are they going to find it? SEO only does so much. It's nice to have a good website now, but it's upsetting that I spent that much on something I didn't need yet. Marketing would have been so much more effective. I could have made the money first and then spent it on the brand.

Peter: So many people I talk to do a rebrand before they come to us. They assume the reason they're not getting clients is the logo, the website, the color palette or the email signature. It matters a little. You need a good-looking website, but it doesn't need to be amazing.

James: It doesn't need to be an $18,000 website, which I was quoted for WordPress. I almost went through with a $15,000 to $18,000 site. I'm glad I didn't.

Peter: It's not that it doesn't matter. You just need clients first. What season are you in?

James: I love learning, and over the past six years I've learned a lot about building a business. I have three brands now: commercial, weddings and elopements. Marketing was the one thing I was bad at. Now I have what I need. I could grow another business if I wanted to.

Peter: These are skills for life. That's the real mission of our business: teaching people the skills to drum up business whenever they need it.

James: Once I'm getting consistent bookings and can book up my calendar by May every year, it'll be so nice. Cold marketing is more work than warm marketing, because people need nurturing. But if I can book my calendar at the beginning of the year, I can focus on other things for the rest of it. In Michigan, there was a bridal group where you could only post vendor posts on Mondays, so every Monday I posted the same message to about 50 Facebook groups. That was my main way of getting bookings. Now I'll have a lot more free time once I'm booked, for things like a course on wedding filmmaking or my YouTube channel. I've been marketing constantly for six years, all year, trying to get bookings. Now I already have 10 bookings, two elopements and eight weddings, and I'll probably do about 30 events a year.

Peter: Here's a coaching moment. Now that you're getting all these leads, the real focus is brand. Get those people onto your Instagram so they keep seeing you. Then you won't always need to spend money on ads. Word of mouth grows, and ads become a lever to pull.

James: That's the absolute goal: referrals and organic Instagram, maybe Facebook. From what I've researched and heard in Facebook groups, Instagram and referrals are the two biggest sources of bookings, but only for people with a presence. You don't need 50,000 followers, but you need consistency, good content, good captions and an engaged following. And you need a base of clients first. The best way to get referrals is to be awesome on the wedding day, the coolest person they know. That's something I struggled with, because as a videographer, I didn't always feel I could be myself around other vendors at weddings. Now my girlfriend is the photographer at most of my weddings, so I can be myself. You and the team have talked about other ways to do it too, like tagging people and getting their Instagrams. I'm in a new state, so I'm starting from scratch on referrals. I need the bookings first. And even with ad spend, I'm at about a 9 or 10X return in 60 to 90 days, including the cost of the program. I can't be mad about that.

Peter: What's been the most transformative thing we've done together?

James: Broadly, the knowledge, but really the support. Coming in, I learned everything I can use to book someone, whether they're warm, cold, from an ad or organic. A lot of that came from trial and error: trying the process, coming to you for help, and you saying, "Just do this," and it working. Now I'm giving people in the group the same advice you gave me. It's such simple advice. Just don't overthink it.

Peter: Say a videographer or photographer is watching and they're skeptical. "Will it work for me?" What would you say?

James: I tell people who ask me about it: I'm not affiliated with you. I just paid you. I was in a lot of people's shoes. I was invited to the group, talked to Peter and was extremely skeptical. I thought only certain people made a lot of money and everyone else maybe got a couple of bookings, which isn't true. I was also nervous about whether I'd get enough bookings in the four months. We even said I'd get at least four bookings in four months, one a month. I've gotten 10 bookings in less time, and now I'm getting a few a month. I'm not saying this for an incentive. I'm excited to share my story. So just do it. You spend some capital up front to learn how to market your business for the rest of its life.

This isn't a trend. Ads in 2018 were very different from 2022, but these fundamentals keep working. You have to put in the work. There's a learning curve, maybe two or three weeks, and you learn a lot through trial and error. But it works. I'm excited to do $200,000 or more in sales this year, because I know I can. If I hadn't joined, I don't know what I'd be doing. I have an engineering degree, but I don't want a "normal" job, especially after moving to another state with three brands and losing my business. So I'm super glad I did it. If you're skeptical, message me, and I'm happy to answer questions. I guarantee I was more skeptical than you. It took me four or five months to join.

Peter: I remember you being one of the more skeptical people, and I understand why. Now you're our biggest advocate. Thanks for hopping on, James. This has been one of my favorite interviews.

James: If anyone has questions, send me a message. I'm always happy to help.