Peter: Today I'm joined by Jo Mahaney of Photography by Jo. Jo has an awesome story. Give everyone a quick intro.

Jo: I'm a wedding photographer based in Central Virginia. I've been behind the camera for about 10 years, but I've only been seriously running the business at this scale for two or three years. I opened the business when I was graduating college, and I stepped back when each of my two kids was born. I had a corporate marketing career and did weddings on the side. Some years I'd do 15, some years four. It was always a licensed professional business, but it wasn't the focus of my life. That shifted when we started working together.

Peter: What was going on two years ago that made you want to talk?

Jo: I was getting some organic traction and a few luxury bookings that made me excited to do more of that. There was also more friction at work. I realized I couldn't keep working a full-time corporate job and doing weddings on the side unless I was making substantially more from fewer weddings. I had a six-month-old, and I needed more time at home. What do we work for, if not to have a life? So the goal was to get enough visibility to book at a higher price point.

My organic leads, mostly from SEO, were also slowing down. In our first year together, leads were about 50% from Meta ads, 30% organic, and 20% referrals from planners and word of mouth. Over the last six months, it's shifted to about 80% to 85% Meta. Google has been less effective. Some of what I used to write would show up in Google snippets, and now it's an AI overview that doesn't link to people the same way.

Peter: You were doing 10 to 15 weddings a year. Where were you a year later?

Jo: We signed 80 contracts in the first year. About four or five months in, I realized I was getting good at sales, and my colleagues were struggling to book weddings. With Meta leads, I'd sometimes be working three or four leads for the same date, so I'd be wasting effort. It became less about how many weddings I could book myself and more about pairing a lead with a great photographer who otherwise wouldn't have found them. So I started growing a team about four months in. It wasn't on the vision board, but it came from your team's encouragement and coaching.

When we rebranded, I got the whole team together for a photoshoot. One of my associates thanked me for putting food on their table during a slow season, because I'd given them some winter weddings. Everyone won.

Peter: You went from never running Meta ads to booking 80 weddings in 12 months, without being an experienced salesperson. How?

Jo: Most of those 80 came in the latter part of the year. A lot of the beginning was unlearning bad habits. I had misconceptions about red flags in leads and how to run a consultation. I learned that a lead I would have called unqualified often just isn't there yet, or I haven't shown them something yet. The group coaching was one of the best parts. You sit with other photographers and videographers who are struggling with the same things and go through lead conversations line by line.

And with the volume of leads from Meta, I didn't have a scarcity mindset, so I could boldly test and learn through trial and error. Once I started treating sales as a daily activity, with daily outreach, daily follow-ups, and tracking my conversion rate, everything changed. I tracked my close rate on consult calls, analyzed the ones that didn't close with your team, and went from a 20% close rate to 60% in the first couple of months.

I never thought of sales as such a big part of a photographer's role, but you have to treat it as almost the main job. If you let off the gas, you'll feel it 60 or 90 days later and wonder what happened.

Peter: People get into this industry because they're creatives who love cameras. But being good at your craft isn't the same as running a successful business. You need sales, marketing, and operations too.

Jo: At first, I struggled because the ads didn't sound like me or my brand. But I decided to trust a proven process that's been done hundreds of times, collect the data, and make changes based on it. Not many creatives use data to make decisions, and your team is great about pushing us on what to track.

Peter: If you're only having five consults in 90 days, you won't book 80 weddings. Getting to $300K, $500K, or seven figures comes down to having way more conversations. Your brand, word of mouth, and referrals will only take you so far.

Jo: In Virginia, we have two busy seasons: spring, from April to June, and fall. Last July, I was coming off spring, and I almost died from the editing. I went from shooting 10 to 15 weddings a year by myself to shooting almost 50 of the 80 we booked. I was doing all the editing, admin, wedding prep, and timeline prep, and I was managing people for the first time. It was a hot mess. My associates just showed up and shot. I had no day-to-day help. Something had to give, or I wouldn't survive the fall, and I couldn't keep bringing in consistent sales while shooting every other wedding.

So we looked at what help I needed. I brought in a VA, got help with social media, switched to an editor who could handle more volume with faster turnaround, and got help with album sales. Having someone else handle reviews and upsells added a whole new level of income without taking my time. We built SOPs so I wasn't doing low-value work like writing captions or answering questions about invoices.

Peter: You sort of have to break your business before you can fix it, because it doesn't make sense to solve problems that don't exist yet. It's about buying back your time so you can spend it on higher-leverage activities.

Jo: My VA was instrumental. If you're not used to running ads, Meta leads mean a lot of people and a lot of follow-up, and you have to stay organized. Having someone else be the first point of contact made it systematic instead of emotion-driven. As the owner, I have days when I'm thrilled, days when I'm low, and days when I'm traveling and unavailable. Speed to lead is really important, and having someone handle daily touchpoints with leads has made us much less up and down with sales and income.

Last week, I went on vacation with my family, and it was chaotic. There was no time to check messages. My VA spent about an hour a day on lead follow-up for five business days, and I came back to 10 calls booked for this week. It took a lot of training, but it's by far the best investment I've made in a person. Instead of coming back to an empty calendar, I came back to couples who'd already received my view book and were excited to talk to me.

Peter: Lead management is the first thing to dial in, because it directly impacts revenue. If you get 20 hours a week back and book one more wedding with that time, it pays for itself.

Jo: This year, I decided I want to physically shoot fewer weddings. My team will be the first option, and I'll be the premium option that comes out more rarely. I'm still finishing the weddings I booked when I was the primary package, but next year, we have about 30 weddings booked so far, and I'm scheduled for only three. I got to hand-pick those, and one is a destination wedding.

This summer, with my kids off school, I spend the first couple of hours of the day in sales mode, then check in with my editor, and then we go to the pool or the caverns. I'm meeting with my team members to see who wants more weddings, and one told me they could probably double what they're doing for me. My VA handles everything that had me underwater last year, like contacting planners and clients for timelines and shot lists, on a scheduled task list linked to a Notion dashboard the whole team can see. I only step in for quality control or if something goes wrong.

Peter: That's nirvana for a lot of people. You have 30 weddings booked that cover your expenses, and you get to cherry-pick the ones you shoot. Your business makes money whether or not you shoot a wedding, and most people in this industry don't have that.

Peter: What would you say to someone doing around $100K who didn't know this was possible?

Jo: Pull the trigger sooner on hiring experts. Every time I've done that, it's bought back my time and been so worth it. Working with you on marketing, ads, and sales coaching has had a huge impact on our life. My VA does lead follow-up better than I did, because it's her job and she's systematic, rather than me as the owner dipping into 50 different roles. A lot of people are nervous because there's no guaranteed ROI, or they've had a bad experience with an editor. Managing people is an art. You have to meet with them often and give feedback. Good help is made more than found. But it's probably closer for most people than they think.

Peter: Growth costs money. It's about investing strategically, in the right order. Ask yourself: if I spend money to get back 20 to 40 hours a month, could I book one more client with that time? If so, that's how you scale. You're using money to create leverage, not just time.

Jo: It bought back time and made us more money very quickly. When I was doing everything myself, burnout happened so fast that I became a less effective salesperson, and I wasn't serving my clients or my family as well. You can't do anything at 100% when you're burned out.

Peter: Say someone is doing about $100K a year and feels stale. They want to shoot less and charge more but don't know what to do. What's your number one piece of advice?

Jo: Get curious about why things are the way they are: what's working, what's not, and what you want next. Then relentlessly go after conversations with leads, and become a salesperson before a photographer. It won't change unless you change something massively. A lot of people stay stuck in attraction marketing, thinking their brand will bring the right people. When I shifted to proactively prospecting, everything changed. DM every follower who likes your stuff and start conversations constantly. There's a lot of gold in the leads that aren't ready yet.

Peter: And what would you say to someone on the fence about working with us?

Jo: It's transformed my whole life, and it's easily the best money I've ever spent. I remember being so nervous. I looked up the people in these interviews on Instagram to make sure they were real, because it felt too good to be true. I didn't expect to become a success story. I just wanted consistent income. It took me a little longer than most to book my first client from the Meta ads, but the coaching was effective right away, because I got better at selling to my organic leads too. I learned to sell in a way that isn't sleazy: get curious, meet people's needs, and show them why you're irresistible.

Peter: So much of the industry just sends a pricing guide. We focus on a consultative approach: learning what couples really want and need, and sometimes presenting different packages based on that. It's subtle, but it makes a big difference.