Peter: Welcome, everyone. Peter here, and today we're back with another incredible client. I'm joined by Pol Senna of Sweet Paper Media. This is going to be a deep dive into Pol's business, what he's working on right now, and what he's done to scale his studio to $85,000 in the last two and a half months. But Pol, before we get into how you grew the studio, give us a little backstory. How long have you been doing this?

Pol: I've been shooting weddings for almost 18 years now, since 2007. I started my business in the Philippines and moved to the US in 2012. I had to stop shooting for about three years while I got settled here, and I didn't really dive back into the business until 2015. That's when it started taking off. There were a lot of ups and downs I had to navigate, but you learn through the process, and here I am now.

Peter: You and I have been working together for a while, and we did a conversation back in 2021. It seems like business right now is the best it's ever been.

Pol: We have the right momentum.

Peter: Catch us up. What does your business look like right now in terms of revenue and team?

Pol: This is the highest quarterly revenue we've ever had. I'm surprised myself. On the team side, I made my salesperson full-time, so he works more hours and brings in more leads. My editors are still working the same way, and my associates are busier this year. We've been booking a lot of smaller weddings, because with inflation, people are spending a lot less, but that's not going to stop us. We'll still take them on. Last year was a bit of a challenge for us. We had a dip because I made some dumb mistakes. It was my own fault. Costs were high and revenue was lower than expected, but it wasn't that bad.

Peter: That could be a whole conversation on its own: the mistakes we make, and how that's really how we learn as entrepreneurs. You just keep going. What's cool is that we linked up again at the end of last year. You were coming off a slower year, and you buckled down and decided to change things. Now you've had your best quarter ever. Like we were saying before we started recording, you've done $85K in about two and a half months, with over $50,000 of that so far this month. And March isn't historically the biggest booking month, so there's a lot of momentum.

Peter: I talk to wedding photographers and filmmakers all the time, and the first big milestone people want to hit is six figures. But once they're in that range, anywhere from about $70K to $120K, and I ask what they want next, they often describe a business like yours. They'd love to make $250,000 or $300,000-plus a year and have a studio and a couple of associates, so they don't have to do all the admin, content, and editing themselves. So say someone watching is making $70K to $100K, give or take, maybe up and down year to year, and they want to get to where you are, around $350K. What are your main pieces of advice for that person?

Pol: Number one is to have an effective client acquisition system. A lot of photographers think that if they build the brand and look more prestigious, clients will magically pop into their inbox. It doesn't work like that. Sales require footwork, and you have to be willing to do it. You have to be willing to get on calls with clients every day, book them for a consult, and then make them an offer. You can't just wait for an email and expect them to say yes to whatever you offer.

Peter: There are a couple of components there. One is doing the legwork: getting back to people quickly when they inquire, and getting a lot more inquiries than you probably are now. I often talk to people doing around six figures who only get a handful of inquiries a month, because they're only selling to people who already know them. They can't scale, because that's a limited number of people. And then there's the point you made, which I think is dead on, about focusing on the brand. You've been doing this since 2007. What do you see going on in the industry?

Pol: I think a lot of photographers are trapped in the idea that if they focus on their brand, a sense of prestige, and high-end branding, quality clients will just show up. They focus too much on perceived value rather than actual value. Actual value is the administrative footwork: an effective lead and client acquisition system, an effective sales process, client communication, prompt delivery, and so on. Those bring in more revenue than high-end branding does. People neglect the administrative footwork and put their resources into branding. That's the mistake, and I think it's why a lot of photographers don't last more than five years in the industry. They focus on the superficial things and on trying to look prestigious instead of doing the actual work of running a business.

Peter: Some hot takes here, but it's so true. How do we get more people to accept that?

Pol: It's not easy. It's more attractive to focus on looking prestigious than on being an actual businessperson, so people gravitate toward that. But if you really want revenue, you have to function as a business, not just a superficial brand.

Peter: This was a transformation you went through, if I remember correctly. Most people learn it through bitter experience. If you're an aesthetically minded creative who likes visuals and someone tells you, "You just need an awesome website" or "this luxury font," it hits that spot. But it's like eating cake. It tastes really good in the moment, but there's no real nutrition, and it doesn't sustain you. What was your experience with that?

Pol: For years, I was chasing fame. I wanted to be published here and there and be the next cool photographer, but I was only getting one or two leads a month. I told myself it would all get better once my brand was out there and I became the next it photographer. It's like chasing the treasure at the end of the rainbow. Along the way, you burn out, you run out of resources, and you have nothing left. It's humbling.

Peter: The great irony is that you're far more likely to become the next it photographer if you stop trying to be that and focus on the things you're talking about instead. Steve Martin had a great quote: "Be so good they can't ignore you." That's how you get people's attention: by running a really successful business.

Pol: I know a couple of luxury photographers who can't afford their rent right now.

Peter: I made a post on my Facebook profile that just said, "Hot take: most luxury wedding photographers are broke." It got something like 150 comments on a one-line post, because it hit a nerve.

Peter: Coming back to acquisition, what do you mean by a client acquisition system? Some people listening might think they have one, but they're getting a few inquiries a month: one or two from posting, plus some referrals and word of mouth. How is what you're describing different?

Pol: An effective client acquisition system gives you consistent daily leads. We're generating about two a day from our Meta ads. Last year it was four. On top of that, we have another method on Instagram that generates about 20 leads a day. But that's hard work, and it requires an extra person. I couldn't do it myself, so I had to hire someone, train them, and have them find couples and put them in a database.

Peter: So how many leads a month are you getting?

Pol: Say 22 a day, times 30. That's about 660 a month. Don't get me wrong, a lot of those are trash leads. They don't book or don't respond. But don't get discouraged. We just have to hit that number to reach our target bookings and revenue each month. The whole goal is predictable revenue and predictable income in this business. Cast your net wide so you catch more.

Peter: To be clear, that's probably well beyond what most people listening need, because you're trying to scale big. But if you're getting fewer than 10 leads a month, you really need to be getting at least 50.

Pol: At least.

Peter: And your other method is being social on social media and connecting with people, on top of running ads. Once you get the leads, what happens next? Do you contact them, or does someone else?

Pol: I have an appointment setter. Last month he was working three hours a day, and I made him full-time. Since then, March has become our best month of the year.

Peter: What's his name?

Pol: J.M. He started with no experience in the industry, so I trained him and spent a lot of time investing in him.

Peter: So you trained him up, and he messages the leads for you. How many consultations is he scheduling for you?

Pol: Let's go by day. Last week, he averaged three to four meetings a day.

Peter: That's really good. So 15 to 20 a week.

Pol: My calendar is packed.

Peter: For people listening who have ambitions to scale, this is what people doing $350K a year think about: how do I get three consults a day on my calendar so I can hit my revenue targets? Some people watching are saying, "I'm not booking anyone," but they only talk to one person a month. You're not talking to enough people. It comes back to the mindset of "I'm a business owner who provides a creative service" rather than "I'm an artist, and the business is an afterthought."

And a system means multiple components working together so the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. You have people playing different roles. Our agency runs your ads. An assistant builds the audience on social media. Someone else messages the leads and sets the appointments. And all Pol does is get on the phone and book the brides.

Pol: Pitch the offer, shoot the wedding, send it to my editor, quality-check the editing, and deliver it.

Peter: From a time perspective, is it manageable?

Pol: Definitely. Before I started hiring people, it was overwhelming, and that's what made me realize I needed to hire. Now it's manageable. I make maybe four to six phone calls a day, and by the end of the day, maybe one or two Zoom calls. Then I shoot on weekends. My mindset is that I'm running a business, and if I want to grow, I need to work on it. I still get to watch Netflix every day and binge my favorite anime lately, Solo Leveling. I still have quality time. The downside is that I'm always busy on weekends, because that's when I shoot weddings. But day to day, it's a lot more relaxed than you'd expect. I'm not sitting around refreshing my inbox, waiting for clients to magically show up and trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I have leads coming in every day, predictable revenue every month, and predictable income, which I never thought was possible in this business. But it is, if you have that system.

Pol: Perceived value is great, but real value will always beat it. Real value is in the administrative work: a real acquisition system, not delaying gallery deliveries, a proper, well-guided sales process, and prompt client communication. When you pitch your offer, show clients that kind of service. I tell them, "I'm not going to be the photographer who responds three days after you text me. I have a project manager who will respond to your messages within 24 hours and answer your questions. If he can't answer them, he'll book you a call with me. And you won't wait one or three months for your photos. You'll get them within a week, or within 48 business hours." Then I guide them through it: "I don't want you to think I'm rushing your photos. Here's my gallery. You be the judge of whether it's rushed." I walk them through my whole process, from uploading and transferring files all the way to delivery. That's real value, not trying to make things look more prestigious.

A lot of photographers think delivering a gallery too fast devalues their work. I disagree. I was chatting with a photographer who asked, "How would you feel if you went to a Michelin-star restaurant and your food came out in three minutes?" My take is that food is different from photos. Some ingredients take time to cook, but Michelin restaurants prep ahead of time and deliver the food as fast as humanly possible. They don't hold it for a few minutes to make it seem more valuable. As photographers, we can deliver fast. That's part of your real value. Deliver your galleries on time. Don't delay them.

Peter: You could argue it's like walking into Rolex or Louis Vuitton, where they supposedly have nothing in stock. They probably do, but that's the luxury strategy: making demand seem high. But once you've bought the Rolex, you want it fast. That argument twists the metaphor. Luxury brands may create demand through scarcity, but that's on the sales and marketing side, not the delivery side.

Pol: Exactly. By all means, limit your bookings and charge high. But don't delay delivery, because that's part of the client experience.

Peter: How do you think about client experience, and how does it fit into growing to a multi-six-figure studio?

Pol: A lot of photographers think it goes like this: the couple visits the website, fills out the form, gets an email with pricing, and says yes. That's not client experience. Client experience starts the moment you get the lead and begin guiding them through the process. I tell my couples, "I want to be a consultant first, before I become your photographer. I want to understand the assignment." For me, that isn't just the logistics: how many hours, how many photographers, which venue, and how we get from point A to point B. That's basic. Understanding the assignment means understanding how to photograph you. I want to understand your vibe and what's important to you, so your photos feel authentic to you. I'm not going to be the photographer who shoots you the way I shoot all my other couples. I want your photos to represent you and actually celebrate you. I'm not trying to produce photos that celebrate my brand, my portfolio, or my Instagram feed. That takes some understanding, so let me be a consultant first. And that sounds great to them.

Peter: Most people don't think about that. I've listened to a lot of sales call recordings, and that deeper question of what couples want their photos to look like almost never comes up. Most photographers think, "This is my style, and you have to fit into it," rather than the other way around. When you create what couples want, you're channeling a desire that already exists in them instead of forcing them into a mold. You can't make people desire things. You can only channel the desire they already have. If you're an artist listening, that doesn't mean you lose your creative footprint. It just means people feel heard, and you bring that into the creative process.

Pol: My philosophy is that the art of wedding photography is when your photos trigger your couple's senses. It's hopelessly romantic, but when they look at a picture, it should remind them how the champagne tasted on her lips, or how her breath felt warm on his cheek as she leaned in to say "I love you." That's the magic of wedding photography, and if we can capture that in our images, that's the art itself. It's not about staring blankly at the horizon or making them laugh for no reason to get a candid shot. Client experience is also about how they feel about the photos. Do the photos represent them? Do they connect with them? If not, they're just cookie-cutter photos. I really think "cookie-cutter" describes how a couple feels about a photo they don't connect with, no matter how artsy it is.

Peter: It's so subtle, but so true. Buying this stuff is so tied to emotion, and if you can meet people at that level and then deliver, you're playing a different game.

Pol: That's how I connect with my couples: through their emotions. I want to understand them. Are they dog or cat people? Beer or wine? That shapes what I do for them and their whole client experience. Most photographers just want to talk prices and logistics.

Peter: That's the other big one I see: only talking about how many hours, how many shooters, and timelines. That's not why people buy.

Pol: That's a given. That's the basics.

Peter: Think about buying a motorcycle. You can get the facts: how fast it goes, the horsepower. That matters. But what really makes someone buy it is the feeling they get when they ride it: the rush of adrenaline, the power, maybe an image from a movie they saw. People buy from that emotional state.

Pol: Sell the feelings, not the package.

Peter: There it is. Sell the feelings, not the package. That's a great line.

Peter: As we wrap up, let's talk about the person who's doing all the shooting and editing themselves. They want to grow, but maybe they're afraid. What do you say to them?

Pol: They need to delegate. They can't be a one-man army. A lot of photographers are: they do the sales, the marketing, the editing, the meetings, and the shooting. It probably takes them about 100 hours to get one wedding from inquiry to delivery. That's very limiting. Even I would find that too time-consuming. So what they usually do is shoot fewer weddings and charge more, and that's the problem. Shooting fewer weddings limits you, and charging more also limits your market, because there are fewer rich people than middle-class people. You end up targeting a smaller market, and that's not even getting into how saturated that market is with photographers.

At the very least, delegate your editing, because it will eat you up. Instead of spending your brain power on editing, spend it on ideas for scaling up and on different marketing strategies to grow your business. When you're stuck editing, you get stuck, burn out, and end up losing.

Peter: One reason people don't delegate editing is that they like it. It's creative, and they get something out of it.

Pol: To be clear, I still edit some of my work. Before I send galleries to my editors, I edit about 100 photos, and they edit the rest. That doesn't take nearly as much time as culling and editing the whole gallery, and it makes sure the quality is still there.

Peter: We tend to think in binary terms: either I do all the editing or none of it, and doing none scares people. But there's a spectrum in between. You spend a couple of hours on final quality work before a gallery is done, while most people spend weeks trying to finish galleries.

Pol: That's toxic for me. Add meetings, shooting weddings on weekends, and living your life on top of that. That's no way to live.

Peter: Your editors are overseas, right?

Pol: Yes. I've been lucky. My main editor has been my assistant since I started my career in 2007 in the Philippines. When I moved to the US, I kept him on, and when I came back, I built out the rest of the team with him. It took off from there.

Peter: Say you've never booked an associate. You're shooting 25 weddings a year yourself, editing everything, and you're tired. You can't grow because you can only shoot so many weddings before you lose your mind. How do you get that first associate booking?

Pol: Start by generating more leads with an effective acquisition system. Once you have more leads than you can take, you'll eventually get a double booking, and you can offer your associate. As for finding an associate, train your second shooter and give them a sense of promotion. I think people stay loyal to a company when they see room to grow. A lot of second shooters don't value their work when they shoot for a company, because they don't see any growth. They're stuck at $50 an hour, maybe $500 a shoot. If you give them a path to grow within the company, they'll stick with you.

Peter: And pay them a percentage of the package rather than an hourly rate, so they feel like they have skin in the game. Promoting your second shooter makes sense, because they're already there. You know them, you trust them, and you like them.

Pol: And you already know their work. Promote your second shooter to associate, and they can still second shoot for you sometimes. If you need more shooters, keep hiring second shooters and eventually promote them to associates. Then you have that machine.

Peter: There are really two machines: the client acquisition machine, and the fulfillment machine for shooting and editing. On the fulfillment side, you always have second shooters coming up. Every big studio I know, including yours and the others we work with, is always training new people and bringing them in.

To recap for anyone hovering around six figures: you need a client acquisition system, focus on real value over perceived value, sell the feeling rather than the package throughout the client experience, and delegate. Don't be a one-man army.